By Syed Akbar Ali
Update : Well thanks to Shahrizat, Malaysia is making headlines around the world for the wrong reasons again : Malaysia mulls hanging parents who dump newborns
This is what the Minister of Women’s Affairs Shahrizat Abdul Jalil said. That the buang bayi people whose actions result in the death of babies should be given the death penalty.
I am not surprised that Shahrizat could say something like this because Shahrizat is a Muslim. Muslims around the world are well known for suggesting and carrying out terrible punishments against their fellow human beings. In Iran they are now on the verge of stoning a woman to death. In Saudi Arabia they behead people in public on Fridays. Also in Iran they have thrown liwat fellows out of helicopters in the air. In Taliban Afghanistan they used a tank to push a wall over some liwat fellows. In Malaysia our khalwat goons have caused the death of many young people who jumped off balconies and windows while trying to escape from them. Only Muslims are capable of doing things like this and then defend it too.
My dear Muslim friends, stoning people to death, throwing liwatters from helicopters, dropping a wall over liwatters are not found in the Quran at all. The word “khalwat” is not even found in the Quran. And have you noticed, even the Mahkamah Syariah in Malaysia does not punish people by stoning to death.
I am surprised that Shahrizat has even lost her woman’s instincts. I would assume that women would or should be less cruel than men. Maybe I am naïve in this area. Maybe its the new age equality?
These are kids we are talking about – our children. Most of these baby dumping cases involve teenaged girls or young women. And a large majority of them (if not all of them) are Malays or Muslims. Has anyone stopped to think why this is so? They are just children. Children having children. And we want to sentence these children to death? Kenapa gila sangat suka bunuh orang ini?
We are supposed to preserve human life, not destroy life. These are young kids who are victims of their society and their strange belief systems. They are not hardened criminals or bank robbers. They need counseling and guidance. You don’t sentence them to death.
I am glad that the statement by the MCA folks has much more enlightenment on this matter. And they are not Muslims. Here is what Ng Yen Yen said:
“MCA believes the problem of baby dumping can be tackled effectively through proper education and a change of mentality within society, said its vice president Datuk Seri Dr Ng Yen Yen. She said a reproductive health education programme could help prevent or reduce unplanned pregnancies and sexually transmitted disease. "MCA feels that the capital punishment proposed for dumping babies is too harsh and will only make things worse. Meting out the death penalty on those who abandon babies is too heavy a punishment," she told reporters.
Allahumma solli alaikum : may Allah shower His blessings upon you.
God has created hormones in the males and females. As long as there are males and females in any society (and they are not liwatters) you will find cases of girls getting pregnant. And we live in an advanced, modern country where young men and women have mobility, employment and mix freely.
The problem for unwanted babies is that the religious law prosecutes girls who get pregnant out of wedlock. Arising from this law, the society also has developed a very unfriendly attitude against girls who get pregnant out of wedlock. As for the boys, well lets just say they don’t get pregnant. I think that’s how society views those culprits. Its always the girls who get the short end of the stick.
My view is that any disciplinary measures to be meted out when there are unwanted pregnancies should be left to the families of the people involved. Let the fathers and mothers, uncles and aunties deal with their children, nephews and nieces – subject of course to the civilized laws of the land. Its their problem. The State should not get involved in meting out punishment over these cases. As an example Muslims living in the West (UK, US, Europe) also face this problem. Their families have no choice but to sort out these problems, as and when they occur.
As Ng Yen Yen suggests we need proper education to teach our young people. I feel that more than the boys (they don’t listen anyway) the girls should be given a comprehensive education beginning in secondary school about the entire reproductive process, pregnancy, birth control, self protection and preservation. In some countries they provide free birth control devices to teenagers. This is a very good idea. This is the “just in case” option. Just in case the girl gets into a tricky situation, at least she will know what to do.
We also need State funding to set up discrete yet easily accessible counseling centers and pre natal centers where pregnant teens can go for help and counseling. This part will require a sea change in our society’s attitude. But as Ng Yen Yen suggests, society needs to be educated too.
To change our soceity’s attitude I think the teaching module can be very short and simple. For example :
Do you consider yourself a human being?
What makes you different from animals?
What do you think of some animal species that kill their young?
Why do you get so much pleasure when young people die from falling off balconies and windows during khalwat raids?
Why do you get so much pleasure from wanting to kill young people?
You know simple ideas and simple concepts like that. Makes it easier for people to understand. I think Shahrizat needs a heavy dosage of ‘how to be a human being’ vitamins too. I don’t know how long it is going to take, but at some point we have to be more civilized. Killing young people is not a civilized option.
Or do you feel that liwatters should be thrown out of helicopters? According to some people that should be the law too.
Updated : Please see Tolokminda's Blog here
47 comments:
Alhamdulillah Dan terimakasih banyak banyak Dato' for being a true muslim in this crazy and vindictive world of ours. I pray for our leaders to think carefully and not say anything out of spite and anger that might harm other Muslims. Terimakasih sekali lagi Dato'.
Mattau
The whole baby dumping got out of control soon after the public caning and punishment for those Muslims found having illicit sex.
So what can these young guys do just because they got a few seconds of nature's calls?
Mark my words, if this law is passed, Malaysia will have the world's record of young girls waiting at death row.
Malaysia boleh.
I support Shahrizat, wise choice.
Hahaha
Imagine the number of young girls being killed. It will in the long run reduce the number of girls and more liwat taking place coz less number of girls.
Maybe a good idea so that there will be adequate resources for the corrupts to play play with.
The solution is easy.
The root cause why there are babies dumped by parents is because they have an unwanted baby in their hand and don't know how to face the society with the problem.
They have unwanted baby because they had unprotected sex. They don't want babies, only fun. This is understandable.
We either must stop them from having sex or stop the sperms from fertilising the eggs.
So they have 2 options.
Option 1 - Stop having sex, not possible as even Adam had sex with Eve (and do note that they had "illegal" free sex as their marriage was not registered by Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara or any Kadi office - there were none at that time though Adam and Eve being god-fearing surely would have tried to look for one to register their marriage before having sex)
Option 2 - Have protected sex. For this the boys must be given free condoms and the girls must be given easy (free) access to "day after" pills at the private and pubic pharmacies with no question asked. All child above the age of 14 must have this. Ayoyo! very painful for me to suggest this as a father of 4 children but better than having to save my child from the hangman at Sungai Buloh prison.
Since option 2 is feasible then the boys and girls must be taught how to use the condoms and the pills. This must happen at biology class no later than Form 3.
If our teacher are too shy to do this, which is understandable as I would be quite malu also to walk around school seeing the same kids everyday after having taught them how to "sarung" the condom on an erect plastic penis; we must train female and male nurses from the health clinics or Lembaga Penduduk to do quarterly visit and have a "dispassionate" discussion of sex, sperm, eggs, condom, pills, virus, bacteria, hygiene, etc. This must be a scientific and secular teaching, nothing to do with hell, heaven and god. Kids don's believe you anyway.
Then, we must educate the parents to accept the painful truth that some children may still have sex despite all the warnings and worse still accidentally spill sperm and create babies. We must have regular advertisement to tell the parents what to do when they find out the kid is pregnant or made someone pregnant. After all the cursing and screaming, the parents must be told to calmly bring the young mother to be to an abortion clinic and have the fetus aborted. If this is not possible due to health reasons then the child and her baby must be taken care and the newborn later given up for adoption or consider marriage (if this is suitable but I don't recommend it).
After all these are done, we must also make dumping of babies a crime. Why? Because dumping a person in a bin or a drain, whatever the age, is already a crime. They must be punished. But not hanged!
Through such carrot and stick approach, we might reduce infanticide to a level that is statistically "normal"> It will never be zero but we will have become a more civilised society.
I am a man, am a parent and I did not have sex until I was in my 20's and married the woman I had sex with so it is not easy to write this but one learns to become more mellow and understand how the world works and sometimes have to swallow bitter pills. Hope many will learn to swallow such pills as well.
This is the problem with Muslims. They Interpret an issue to suit their thinking only i e within their trenched box. They do not care what other Muslims have got to say. To support their argument and to shut others mouths ,they claimed its from the "Quran".
So let live with it lah....
Mana ilmu orang Islam.
Anon 3:57 I agree with yr suggestions except for this part "..the parents must be told to calmly bring the young mother to be to an abortion clinic and have the fetus aborted.."
Whether the baby is dumped in the garbage bin and dies or has its life terminated before birth thru abortion, the end result is the same : we are terminating human life.
I must state plainly that I am against the abortion of foetuses, except where it is a medical complexity.
As human beings and as a species, I think the most important thing that we have is our human life. We should not terminate human life.
A foetus can commit no wrong that deserves its life to be terminated.
Syed Akbar Ali
To minimise this trend, elect wakil rakyats who belive in and are sympathetic towards gays and homosexuals. Less cross-gender liaisons = less babies = smaller pop. = less prob.
Anyway, thanks so much to anon 3.57 for his almost hilarious-serious views and of course to Syed for simplifying, as always, complex issues.
I think what Sharizat meant was "death penalty" to those who dump babies and leave it to die...
I think there is nothing wrong with that..
Noone should be given the right to KILL another human being, and in this case, even worse, killing ones own baby whose survival depended on you.. (Emak bunuh bayi sendiri - picit hidung dan tutup mulut, selesai when the baby had no means to defend herself).
Educating and counseling is VERY important TO ENSURE these acts don't take place AT ALL..
WIDOW
For many years I watched American series that have teen pregnancy problems.
Who would have thought that year 2010, my beloved country is having worse problem than the Americans. The Americans do not dump their newborns in dustbins, they gave them up for adoption.
I think the society shd stop all these name calling and asking for the blood of the young mothers. The G shd do their part by providing information on how to get your unwanted babies adopted (with no hassle and no moral lectures please.. nasi sudah jadi bubur, no point)
Those who got pregnant are traumatised and ashamed what more with threats of being arrested by the religious goons and to be whipped and shamed in public are not helping matters.
Instead of helping them to live through their mistakes quietly by providing a home till their delivery and then having the baby legally adopted by childless couples and then helping them rebuild their lives, everything is blown out of proportion by bringing them to the religious court and shaming them in public with flogging.
No wonder, out of fear and desperation, these girls dump their babies.
In human policies are the cause of baby duping amongst the Malays.
This is the same dungu Minister who, some time ago, said she will launch a jihad against Anwar Ibrahim.
Is Islam so vindictive? In my opinion, she makes a mockery of the religion.
In most instances when you join the cult of Mohamad, as the case with most cults, you divorce yourself from the rest of humanity which you consider as infidels, dhimmis or goyims and are undeserving of your compassion or mercy. And if you're a cult member that supposedly has transgressed the laws of your cult you are as bad the infidels and deserved to be severely punished.
Salam,
Melalui Al-Quran Tuhan memberi petunjuk bahawa manusia akan membunuh atau mengabaikan bayi mereka hanya kerana 2 sebab. Yang pertama kerana takut miskin. Di negara bukan Islam, ini adalah punca utama bayi ditinggalkan atau diabaikan.
Sebab yang kedua adalah kerana kepercayaan agama. Contoh yang diberikah adalah bagaimana orang-orang Arab dulu cenderung membunuh bayi perempuan mereka kerana malu disebabkan kepercayaan agama mereka yang mengatakan anak-anak perempuan hanya layak untuk Tuhan.
Dalam masyarakat Islam sekarang pula mereka percaya agama mereka menyifatkan anak yang dilahirkan di luar pernikahan sebagai anak haram walaupun perkara ini tidak akan kita temui di dalam Al-Quran. Akibatnya, sepertimana orang-orang Arab membunuh anak-anak perempuan mereka kerana malu, orang Islam hari ini juga membunuh bayi mereka kerana malu disebabkan kepercayaan songsang yang ditanam oleh pembesar agama mereka.
Pandangan saya mengenai perkara ini boleh dibaca di http://tolokminda.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/golongan-agama-merupakan-pencetus-kepada-fenomena-pembuangan-bayi-dan-masalah-tidak-akan-selesai-selagi-kita-bergantung-kepada-mereka/
Dear Syed
I am mortified at the thought of young girls being killed for dumping a baby. Our UMNO morons have displayed their shallow thinking and I am glad people like Ng Yen Yen can still think rational thoughts and have the courage to speak up.
This is NOT a Muslim problem. It is a problem among young people all over the world. The difference here is that UMNO wants to deal with the problem in a stone age fashion.
Teenagers sould be taught about sexual health and related issues so that they know the consequences of unprotected sex. We must set up discreet centers where unwed girls can safely have their baby and then decide whether to give up for adoption or marry the guy and keep the child. The idea to send such girls to a special school (and be tagged for life!) or to kill them is simply absurd. I think in the race for Muslim votes, our PAS and UMNO politicians are willing to sacrifice anything - even the lives of our young girls.
Thou should not kill.This is a command from god.God is love and forgiveness and even killing as punishment is forbidden.
Tolokminda,
Saya telah update Blog saya dgn link kpd Blog sdra. Sila hubungi saya melalui e mel. Salam. SAA
Dato,
It seems that Dato Seri Najib is non-committal regarding the kill kill policy and blabbering in the news just now about investigation and DNA testing needed before any decision is made. There's hope after all in the holy month of ramadhan.
Mattau
'Muslims around the world are well known for suggesting and carrying out terrible punishments against their fellow human beings.'
The writer obviously has not read the Old Testament (Jewish Tanakh) in entirety to know that such harsh punishments are also there. Making a mockery of Muslims alone is completely uncalled for.
If there are no written references to such punishments in the Quran, then the writer must study the meaning (in depth) to Sura Al-Ma'ida Verse 48.
Also, the writer should refer to the birth of Jesus Christ (Nabi Isa a.s.) as recorded in Sura Maryam Verse 16-36 where the miracle of speech as an infant was given to Jesus so as to enable him to exonerate his mother (Maryam @ Virgin Mary) and at the same time, to save her from a certain death at the hands of the Bani Israel.
So, the writer is in reality ignorant of all complete details.
rasanya memang la hukum bunuh pada si peliwat dan hukum an yg menyakitkan pada pelaku zina ni semua takde mention dalam Quran tapi Hadis Sahih Nabi jangan dilupakan.
"Barang siapa yang kamu jumpa, yang mana ia melakukan perbuatan kaum Nabi Lut, maka bunuhlah keduanya." [ HR Ahmad, Abu Daud, Ibn Majah dan Tarmizi]
Bagi HUKUMAN ZINA pula
al-Qur’an (surat al-Nisa’: 15), “Dan terhadap perempuan yang mengerjakan perbuatan keji, hendaklah ada empat orang saksi di antara kamu yang menyaksikannya. Kemudian apabila mereka telah memberi persaksian, maka kurunglah perempuan-perempuan itu sampai mereka menemui ajalnya, atau sampai Allah memberi jalan lain kepada mereka”.
(ayat 16) “Dan terhadap dua orang yang melakukan perbuatan keji di antara kalian, maka berilah hukuman kepada keduanya, kemudian jika keduanya bertaubat dan memperbaiki diri, maka biarkanlah mereka. Sesungguhnya Allah maha Penerima Taubat dan Maha Penyayang”.
"Liwat adalah perbuatan dosa yang belum pernah dilakukan oleh umat manusia, kecuali satu umat yakni kaum lut sebagaimana yang telah kamu ketahui. Dengan demikian, pelaku liwat mesti dibakar dengan api."
Liwat terbukti dengan adanya;
1.Pengakuan
2.Kesaksian 2 orang saksi atau seorang lelaki dan dua orang perempuan sebagaimana pembuktian (bayyinah) dalam kes pencurian serta kes hudud yang lain
Hukuman hudud liwat dapat dijatuhkan dengan syarat kedua-dua pelakunya itu baligh, berakal, rela dengan sendirinya (bukan dipaksa) dan terbukti telah melakukan liwat dengan bukti syar'ie iaitu pengakuan dan dengan kesaksian 2 orang lelaki atau seorang lelaki dan dua orang perempuan.
Sex education is the solution ?
Sex education ala barat atau asas kehidupan manusia cara Islam ?
Sex education ala barat lebih kepada cara mengahalng terjadi kehamilan tetapi perbuatan zina tetap berlaku.
Dalam Islam berzina tu haram kerana setiap manusia wajib bertanggung jawab ke atas setiap perlakuan nya.
Jadi bernikah itu adalah sebagai ikrar peringatan bahawa pasangan itu akan bertangungjawab terhadap pasangan, anak, keluarga dan masyarakat mereka.
So, prevention is better than cure.
Mungkin undang2 seperti di Brunei yg menghalang anak anak di bawah 18 tahun di larang keluar tanpa ahli keluarga selepas jam 9 malam adalah langkah pemulaan yang lebih praktikal agar dapat mengurangkan masalah ini.
Pada waktu siang golongan ini lebih banyak masa di guna untuk belajar dan segala perlakuan mereka senang di lihat masyarakat.
Dear Syed,
Have you considered the Hadeeth too when you write this post? It is dangerous when we talk about Islam based only on our own opinion. Sometimes our own mind alone could not explain what is happening. For example you have decided to defend the boys and girls who throw away their babies and in some case the babies died from violent death. Have you considered the justice for the innocent babies?
Syed, UMNO morons in the Cabinet may have pushed for this decision. It kind of show you their depth of thinking. I bet none have read the Quran with clear understanding. But its OK, their DOA will solve everything, No worries.
This is a social problem. The UMNO/BN govt is not people oriented atherwise they won't be making silly decisions. Look at Sharizat, Minister for women blah blah. . UMNO goons can't think out of the box. They always want capital punishment for their people. Pray to God Sharizat's daughters don't get entangled in this scenario then can Sharizat see her daughter pay for such high penalty.
UMNO/BN govt always think capital punishment. Look at the traffic offence, they apply maximum compounds, RM300.00. What is the minimum wage of the Malaysian worker. It's high time they are replaced with a new govt.
Syed,
Just to share this...Din Merican must be commended.
January 18, 2006 Exchanges with Din Merican: Open Letter to Shahrizat
http://www.bakrimusa.com/archives/exchanges-with-din-merican-open-letter-to-shahrizat
"...The world community is also closely monitoring developments following the passage of these unjust amendments. We cannot ignore international public opinion and do what we please in this globalised world.
Women rights are also human rights. Muslim women demand equal and fair treatment and I, as a Muslim male, strongly support their position. Their rights cannot be abridged or brushed aside to accommodate conservative Islamists and power-seeking Ulamaks.
As the Minister in charge, you are expected to champion the rights of women, and especially Muslim women.
These are not amorphous beings or votes to be counted in elections.
These women are you, your mother, sisters, daughters, friends and neighbors." Unquote. Bravo Din !
Tuesday August 12, 2008 - Wanita Umno's by-election 'jihad' - http://thestar.com.my/news/sto...sec=nation
BUTTERWORTH: Wanita Umno has declared its campaign in the Permatang Pauh by-election as jihad or a holy war....
She lost her seat in Lembah Pantai to Nurul, Anwar's daughter. It was said that she was not selected by the then PeeM in his cabinet but she ambushed him at 11th hour in Putra Jaya and got the senator's post…
The then PeeM was not respecting the voters who had voted her out… so she should be grateful to “God Almighty” to seek forgiveness & to repent…
Maybe someone should tell her to study Islam. Her role as a Wanita UMNO Muslim women’s leader and her "tudung semi pro" is not giving her a license to call for jihad, death penalty, etc, etc …
One interesting comment...
"I wonder too, what they were wearing when they declared this so-called Jihad, Death Penalty, etc, etc, etc?
Were they in Purdahs or were they in Gucci's, Jimmy Choo's and Zang Toi's while instructing their baju kurunged ordinary members to take up arms against this enemy of theirs while they planned their next shopping trip to London, Paris and New York?" Unquote.
Where is her “Compassion” for these unfortunate “Young Misguided People” in our society that needs Sharizat’s Motherly Guidance, Counselling & to understand their plight…they need some recourse!
It could one day be her own family, relative, friends, neighbours ending up like these unfortunate people….
You be the judge.
Cheers.
everyone knows how "naughty" muslim girls are. did someone stop to think if the restrictive upbringing has something to do with it?
high time parents rethink how to raise children the correct islamic way. by providing good advice and not punishment!
this is 2010, not 600 A.D.
Syed,
If the Minister has "Repented" on her statements in the month or Ramadhan, there is a recourse for her...
Many solutions abound if only one is honest & sincere enough to admit the truth and to ask/learn...instead of being Sombong Bodoh!
Al that is needed is to discuss with my friend's daughter, Dr Hartini of Rumah Salam, Chowkit...
Yes, and I do discuss/advise her from time to time...
To work out another "Welfare Home" for those 'Young Misguided' People with a "Legal Adoption Scheme" - a Win-Win for all parties...
Shahrizat is well aware of this Home...
Reach out to Chow Kit kids - | New Straits Times, Sep 27, 2006 | by Su Aziz
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/new-straits-times/mi_8016/is_20060927/reach-chow-kit-kids/ai_n44334035/
WHEN Dr Hartini Zainudin of Yayasan Salam Malaysia started talking about the children of Chow Kit, there was no stopping her and the story that unravelled was both heart-rending and inspiring.
When she was first asked by Yayasan Salam Malaysia to teach English to the children there at a Chow Kit daycare centre - provided by the "Ministry of Welfare" - about a year ago, she discovered that the children, who numbered more than 40, had nowhere to go when the centre closed at 5pm.
(The closure is in accordance with permit legalities.)
So being the bundle of energy that she is, Dr Hartini, on behalf of Yayasan Salam Malaysia, "collaborated closely with the Ministry of Women, Family and Community Development" for a solution.
They came up with a three-part plan that is divided into The Activity Centre, The Pantry and The Shelter that will be carried out in a new premises called Rumah Nur Salam in Chow Kit, for the sole benefit of these children residing in the area....
Pencinta Merah…The Red Lover…The Red Diva… http://redmummy.com/2009/05/27/visit-to-rumah-nur-salam-chow-kit/
Salam Malaysia - http://www.salam.org.my/
YAYASAN SALAM MALAYSIA, SALAM in short, is an independent, non-profit organization formed to promote a spirit of volunteer service among Malaysians and to provide opportunities for them to work as volunteers with communities in need at home and abroad.
SALAM organizes volunteer service programmes in various fields, focusing particularly on education, health and community development work.
Our activities are funded by contributions from individuals, corporate bodies and the government.
Here are some interesting articles...
Teo-Education.Com » Kids on the streets. http://www.teo-education.com/teo/?cat=95
Teo Eng Seng, the key administor of Teo-Education.Com is a lecturer at UNIRAZAK Sabah Regional Centre, SIDMA College, Kota Kinabalu.
Prior to joining UNIRAZAK Sabah Regional Centre, Teo Eng Seng has served as a teacher, School Principal, School Supervisor, Curriculum Officer and Assistant Director (Curriculum and Training) at Sabah Education Department, Kota Kinabalu...
You be the judge.
Cheers.
Tuan Syed,this is how we should approach the problem of baby dumping. The top event is sex before marriage. The outcome is unwanted baby leading to baby dumping. The threats are young boys and girls are curious and enjoy having sex, mobility, better privacy, uncaring society, sex ignorant etc . The barriers are sex educations, condoms,birth control pills, family and society pressures, legislators enforcements(privacy is important), teenage marriage etc. The recoveries after the top events are adoptions, early abortion, parents acceptance,marriage,counseling, just punishment etc. The legislators should approach this problem as a structured and systemic manner in order to reduce the top event from happening. The solutions suggested by Sharizat is a reactive solution which will never solve the problem. Baby dumping seldom happen in the old days since the parents will ensure that the couple responsible get married.
Congratulation Shahrizat! When one got heavy punishments, others won't dare to do the crime. This is what we call prevention. You kill another human being -- in this case your baby -- we kill you. I think this is very, very fare. Again, good call Shahrizat.
Godisuno, when I read your comment I am in a mati akal situation. I just dont know how to reply your comment. A long time ago, when there was a crackdown on the mini buses in KL being unsafe, one TV reporter asked a mini bus driver that his mini bus door could not be closed (hence endangering passengers who could fall out). The driver replied 'habis pintu dah rosak macam mana nak tutup?' The TV reporter also mati akal. How to speak to someone as dumb as that? Using your logic, every time a muslim girl suffers an unwanted pregnancy, should we investigate who was her religious teacher at school and jail the religious teacher also? This is just a suggestion. Why? Because obviously the religious teacher (who according to you should know the things I dont know) has failed to instill the proper values in their students. We cannot blame the babies. We also cannot blame the teenaged girls and boys. We must blame their religious teachers. To me this sounds fair. If even the religious teachers have failed to instill good values in children, then who else do we blame? Think carefully.
Enon, bilangan penduduk Brunei 300,00 atau kurang dpd itu. Di Brunei Kerajaan bayar semua - tak payah kerja pun boleh dapat duit dpd Kerajaan. Bolehlah babysit anak2 hingga umur 18 tahun. Di negara lain di dunia ini agak rumit sikt jika parents babysit anak2 sampai umur 18 tahun.
Brunei bukan contoh yang terbaik atau pun yang baik. Mungkin satu hari mereka akan kurungkan saja semua wanita dalam rumah - tak boleh keluar langsung. Seperti berlaku di Kandahar, Afghanistan di bawah pemerintahan Taliban gila. What do you think? Apakah lebih senang kita kurung saja semua wanita dlm rumah?
Tak payah sebut "sex education". Boleh panggil nama lain. Contohnya kursus tajuknya "How to avoid getting pregnant for Muslim girls" atau pun "Kursus Mencegah Kehamilan Luar Nikah utk wanita Islam". Dalam kursus itu, kita mesti ajar bahawa sex di luar perkahwinan dilarang agama. Problem solved.
Tapi kalau itu pun tak boleh, takpalah. Kita ajar kursus itu utk bukan Islam saja. Kemungkinan besar kes hamil luar nikah dikalangan bukan Islam akan lebih menurun lagi (dpd tahap rendah sekarang) - jauh lebih rendah dpd kes melibatkan wanita Islam.
Bagi wanita Islam yg hamil luar nikah pula, mereka akan terus buang bayi di tepi jalan. Apa nak buat. That is what you want to happen. Suruh DBKL kutip saja mayat bayi itu.
Anon 10:40 Inilah pertama kali saya dengar pendapat "Dengan demikian, pelaku liwat mesti dibakar dengan api."
Apabila saya baca komen seperti ini saya teringat kisah "wild horses" - cerita kuda liar dlm gambar koboi saya tengok masa kecil dulu.
Sdra kata :
Liwat terbukti dengan adanya: "pengakuan dan dengan kesaksian 2 orang lelaki atau seorang lelaki dan dua orang perempuan"
Saya ingin tanya kpd sdra, sejak kedatangan Islam dlm zaman moden selama lebih 1450 tahun ini, berapa kah bilangan kes liwat yg pernah dihadapkan ke muka keadilan mahkamah cukup dgn saksi dua lelaki atau seorang lelaki dan dua wanita?
Ada tak catitan mana mana mengenai kes liwat dgn cukup saksi dua lelaki atau satu lelaki dua wanita? Thank you.
Tuan Syed I have told you this before and I'm going to tell you again just so that you know:
I am copying your article verbatim and put them on my blog and facebook as if they were mine.
Boleh?
Anon 10:25 you said "The writer obviously has not read the Old Testament (Jewish Tanakh) in entirety to know that such harsh punishments are also there. Making a mockery of Muslims alone is completely uncalled for."
Anon 10:25 obviously you are a Christian. I am not mocking anyone. But it is strange that you want the Christians also to be mocked at? Why?
I know the Old Testament prescription of death for adultery (Deut 22:22-24, Lev 20:10). However I was addressing the issue from a Quran perspective. There is no death penalty for adultery in the Quran at all. Christians like you will follow the Old Testament in the Bible which prescribes the death penalty for adultery.
But I am a little surprised, most Christians today do not even follow the Old Testament. Are you a Jesuit Christian (from the Catholics?)
As for 5:48 please read it carefully for you dont seem to understand what it says.
Surah 5:48 says, "..Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them"
The Quran is therefore a confirming scripture. It confirms previous scriptures. The Quran can only confirm what is found inside the Quran. If the Quran speaks about a, b, c and another scripture talks about a, b, c, d and e then obviously the Quran cannot confirm d and e. The Quran can only confirm a, b and c. This is simple Darjah Dua logic. How can the Quran confirm the death penalty for adultery in another scripture when the Quran does not mention death penalty at all. Perhaps you must check the meaning f the word "confirming" in the dictionary.
Surah 5:48 continues. It says, "You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you.."
So you must rule according to God's revelations. This is the Quran.
And please understand the following part of the verse carefully: "and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you.."
So Muslims cannot follow the wishes of the Jewish and the Christian scripture if it differs from the truth that came to the Muslims.
Regards. SAA
Darth Trust, Boleh. Go ahead. SAA
I am Anonymous 10:25
'Anon 10:25 obviously you are a Christian.'
Incorrect. I am a Muslim and my ancestors have been Muslims since the time of King Solomon (Nabi Suleiman a.s.) when the kiblat was the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem and the liturgy was in Hebrew.
'As for 5:48 please read it carefully for you dont seem to understand what it says.'
Arabic is my 2nd Language and am capable of digesting the TAFSIR in Modern Standard Arabic from the Classical Arabic of the Quran. Let me remind you that the Quran was revealed to the Arabs and they alone have the ability to comprehend the message more than any other bangsa. Let me remind you also that any dispute must be based on the revelation in ARABIC and not on someone's perception of what they think is the meaning in English or BM. The Arabic word in the said verse (مُهَيۡمِنًا) is actually QUALITY CONTROL; to mean QC over the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, which were all revealed in Hebrew (i.e. Taurat, Zaboor & Injeel).
So, tell me why have you chosen not to comment on the miracle of speech that Allah SWT gave to the newborn baby (Jesus Christ @ Nabi Isa a.s.) if the punishment would not have been STONED TO DEATH upon Maryam????
i'm 23.
say one day you throw me down a river, i drowned, i died.
you will be charged for murder.
say one day, you throw a man,45 years old; in a sewer. he died there.
you are responsible for murder.
so one day, you throw a one day old male into a sewer.
he died; he drowned.
why the heck should you get just "menyembunyikan kelahiran", or "illegal dumping"?
where's the justice in that?
just because they are two or three days old, they aren't treated as human?
think. think.
I am still Anonymous 10:25
'So Muslims cannot follow the wishes of the Jewish and the Christian scripture if it differs from the truth that came to the Muslims.'
Here again is your statement that proves the shallowness of your understanding of the Quran. You have to show me a verse in the Quran that EXPLICITLY negates EVERY SINGLE WORD from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures before staking that claim.
I must say, based on the current law, The Poyo Me has a point.
Having said that, I think all capital punishments laws should be abolished.
And I think Shahrizat should be more compassionate towards other human being, be it young women or old men.
Dear Syed,
What I am saying is that in every issue we have to at least consider two sides arguments. The cases of throwing babies have become so rampant nowadays that it needs a solution. I always believe that the best way to solve anything is to go back to Islam. We moslems always say that Islam is the way of life, but do we really put it into practice? If we want to discuss about the problems of dumping babies, this is actually the product of immorality. Islam is known for its high moral standards and our beloved prophet taught us how to act accordingly in upholding morality. The dumping of babies is actually the product of the chain of events that are related to immoral action. According to your argument, we should blame the teacher of the culprits who dumped their unwanted offspring. If we want to follow your deduction, then why stop there? Lets blame the teacher of the teacher of the culprits. From there we can blame others too. The list will go on and on. To me, human has their own soul, their own will, their own mind, their own body and most importantly their own lust. Teaching them good won't necessarily make them good if they are not willing to be good themselves. The inculcation of morality mostly depends on the self. They have to use their minds and their hearts to decide what to do and whats not to do. Every human has to shoulder their own sin, has to face the consequence of their own deed. We are responsible for our own deeds. Lessons can be learned in many many ways even through punishment. Some punishment could act as deterrent. The punishment should fit the crime. In some cases, the babies who were dumped died. This to me, is simply murder.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If this is barbaric then why should we have death penalty for murder or even drug trafficking?
Anon 10:25 if u insist u r a muslim that’s yr right. But y do u defend the Bible so much? If u r not a Christian, u sound like an agent of the Christians and Jews. Especially when u say:
“You have to show me a verse in the Quran that EXPLICITLY negates EVERY SINGLE WORD from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures”
Using your logic, how do you handle the fact that the Quran never explicitly uses the word haram for intoxicants. The Quran also never explicitly uses the word haram for zina? How do you handle that?
Before we lose track of your logic, I mentioned ‘confirming’ in 5:48. The Arabic is mussaddiqan (root sadiq which also means ‘true’). The Quran confirms the truth of previous scripture.
You quoted the word muhaiminun and said it means “QC”. Most translators say watcher, guardian. I think we get the meaning.
I was referring to musadiqan ie confirming. Never mind, even as a “QC” the Quran cannot QC something that is NOT in the Quran.
The Quran cannot “QC” the story that a horse grew wings and flew to the heavens. Neither can the Quran “QC” a many headed monster with the feet of a dragon rising from the sea (Book of Revelation). There is absolutely no such thing in the Quran.
How can the Quran or any other book “QC” something that is not found inside it in the first place? We must use some common sense and logic here.
As for yr claims about yr ancestry to Solomon, you are wasting yr time & mine. What does yr ancestry have to do with the price of fish in Somalia?
But even there maybe I beat you. My ancestry goes back to Adam. Coincidentally my forefathers come from the southern most tip of India, almost exactly across from “Adams Causeway”. Do look it up.
Adams Causeway is believed (by folks like you – not me ok) to be some stone or rock formations that exist in the Palk Straits between Sri Lanka and India. It is still there today. People like you say when Adam was sent down to earth, he landed in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and he did cross to India via the Adams Causeway.
This is also irrelevant info. I hope you can see why. It has nothing to do with the price of fish in Somalia either.
You say “Let me remind you that the Quran was revealed to the Arabs and they alone have the ability to comprehend the message more than any other bangsa”
In modern history the arabs are among the most down trodden and despicable race. In ancient history the Arabs even coined a phrase for themselves ‘jahiliyah’. I did not coin this word. Being Arab does not save them from jahiliyah.
Strangely the Quran says ‘al A’rabu asyaddu kuffran wa nifaaqan’. This means “the Arabs are the worst kafirs and munafiks” referring to the Arabs too. See Surah 9:97.
9:97 The Arabs are the worst in kuffr and munafik, and the most likely to ignore the laws that GOD has revealed to His messenger. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
Being Arab does not save them from being kuffr and munafik. (In case you say that the Arabs mentioned in 9:97 refers to the Bedouins, there is another specific mention of ‘badoona fil a’raabi’ in the Quran).
More relevant to our discussion, the Arabs broke into syiah and sunni. The syiah became seveners, fivers, twelvers etc – all different sects killing each other.
The sunnis became the madhabs, the tareqats, the sufis, the wahhabis, the goofys etc. Still killing each other. There is so much confusion in the Arab Muslim world and the whole Muslim world at large. About what? About their religion. How come? Arent they the best bangsa to understand the Quran?
cont part 2
part 2
So your point that the Arabs are the greatest bangsa to understand the Quran is quite far fetched. The evidence to back up that statement is ZERO.
And do note the following verse also :
41:44 If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."
Whether it is in Arabic or no, for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it.
I am very careful about what I say. I carefully mentioned Bible. The Quran on the other hand mentions Injeel, Taurat and zabur. There is no evidence that today’s Bible has anything to do with the Injeel, Taurat or Zabur that is mentioned in the Quran.
Even Christians don’t know who wrote this book called the Bible. (Please read Karen Armstrong’s Biography of the Bible). So please do not be in a hurry that the Bible is the same as the Injeel, Taurat and Zabur of the Quran.
The Quran mentions Injeel. Injeel in Greek is Evanglos, from which comes the word Evangel. Is the Bible and the Greek Evanglos the same? I don’t know (I don’t think so).
Since u can read the Quran and understand it, also note that the Bani Israel and the Yahood of the Quran are not the same people. I am sure you must have noticed that.
Neither does the Quran say anywhere that the Taurat was revealed to Moses. But the Christians and Jews say that the Pentateuch (the five books of Moses) in the Bible were revealed to Moses. They also say that the Pentateuch is the Torah.
Lately they themselves are disputing this. Why? They say (not me ok) that the Book of Moses speaks of Moses death ! ! So how can it be written by Moses?
So the Quran definitely cannot even begin to confirm or ‘QC’ that the Pentateuch was revealed to Moses.
So where do you get the idea that the Pentateuch of the Old Testament at least is also part of the injeel or Torah? What proofs do you have?
On the miracle of speech that Allah SWT gave to the newborn baby Jesus there is no mention of stoning to death in that verse. I cannot comment on what is NOT in the Quran.
Even among the people of Jesus there were disbelievers:
[5:78] Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.
Having said that, the word stoning is mentioned six times in the Quran. At all times the act of people stoning other people is quoted as the work of the jahil people.
11:91 Shuaib threatened with stoning by the jahil
18:20 jahil will stone
19:46 Abraham was threatened with stoning by the jahil
26:116 Noah threatened with stoning etc.
Never in the Quran is stoning an act prescribed by Allah for Muslims.
cont part 3
cont part 3
You want an explicit verse that negates every single word of the Bible? First you must satisfy yourself that the Bible of today is the same Injeel, Torah and Zabur of the Quran.
I have already given you my reasons above. Here is more.
2:79 “Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains”
They distorted the scripture with their own hands and said ‘this is from God”.
Who were these people? They were the Bani Israel (see 2:83) and the gentiles (ummiyeen). These were people who had been given the book before, but they distorted it. This is 100% confirmation that the Bani Israel distorted the scriptures.
So don’t be so sure that todays Bible, Pentateuch, Old Testament is what Allah had revealed. Do not be ignorant.
And do look at these verses:
2:120 “Neither the Jews, nor the Christians, will accept you, unless you follow their religion. Say, "GOD's guidance is the true guidance." If you acquiesce to their wishes, despite the knowledge you have received, you will find no ally or supporter to help you against GOD”
So please don’t follow the Jewish and Christian Bible, not after God has revealed the Quran to us.
3:100-101 O you who believe, if you obey some of those who received the scripture, they will revert you, after having believed, into disbelievers. How can you disbelieve, when these revelations of GOD have been recited to you, and His messenger has come to you? Whoever holds fast to GOD will be guided in the right path.
These verses are very explicit.
I must salute you for your lengthy yet unnecessary 3-part ‘plenty of red herrings’ reply to distract the attention of the readers upon for your reluctance to comment on the birth of Jesus (Nabi Isa a.s.) as narrated in the Quran (Sura Maryam Verse 16-36).
There is no doubt whatsoever that your knowledge of Islam is comparable to those of us who had to learn it in the original Arabic Language; however, the issue here is your article on unwed mothers as well as your criticism on Muslims for suggesting that they be killed.
I do not dispute that the Quran does not literally indicate the penalty for unwed mothers BUT it has a story about an unwed mother – Virgin Mary @ Maryam Binte Imran. So, that should be our focus.
With that in mind, I am asking you once again to explain to me why Allah SWT blessed the newborn Jesus (Nabi Isa a.s.) with the miracle of speech after asking Maryam to take a vow of silence.
Please comment on that. Otherwise, your effort and time in the lengthy 3-part reply will be in utter vain.
Signed – Anon 10:25
Anon 10:25, it took me about 15 minutes max to reply your points. I know you are christian and I dont know what is your intention in trying to cover it up.
I know because you have not replied to any of the verses I have quoted - meaning you dont know them (red herring? Can you be more original?) After defending the Bible, you keep harping abt Mary and Jesus - this is another simple give away.
My reply was 3 parts cos the Blog wont take the whole thing at one go. It is just 1 part, done in 15 minutes or so.
Anyway first you insist that I reply, which I did. Then you say my reply is unnecessary, red herring etc. Now you want me to reply again. You dont sound very clever.
However I do enjoy thrashing these 'hiding behind the covers" christians, beardos, religious nuts whatever because other people read my replies too. Its fun.
I cant even understand your question about Mary, why baby Jesus could talk? Indeed, why was it that baby Jesus could talk?
Let me give u some reason. Why didnt God make frogs fly? I am asking you because you are the one person here who will know. Also why didnt God give us four hands? Again you must be the one person here who would know.
I dont know. These things are also not written in the Quran. I can speak about things that are in the Quran. You seem to know things about the Quran that are not in the Quran. In the Quran God says that he perfected the Creation. So please tell us why God did not put wings on frogs or give us four hands. Why cant four hands be part of perfection too? Or flying frogs?
May I put in a question too? Why does 'God' exist? Certainly with your knowledge of the Bible and other non Quranic information, you must be able to answer a simple question like that? It definitely not in the Quran.
Why doesn't God have a daughter? You must be able to answer that too?
If you think you can justify stoning people to death (or Shahrizat's death for baby dumping) by answering why God made baby Jesus talk, then certainly you can answer why didnt God have a daughter who could sing when she was a baby? Or why God's perfect Creation missed out an extra pair of hands for us or wings for frogs? Do answer ok?
All this information is not in the Quran either. So since you made up these questions, maybe you can just make up the answers as we go along?
There is no doubt whatsoever that your knowledge of the Bible and Islam is very shallow. Most christian zealots, like the beardo zealots too are like that. Silly ideas, illogic, strange explanations, even stranger questions - all represent an intellect severely dented by syirik or false beliefs.
Solomon's Temple? Are you sure it is not Batu Caves temple? Do check your family history. Family histories have a way of getting deviated. One minute the grandfather was praying at the Batu Caves or some other cave. Then when the second or third generation converted to christianity, they suddenly found Solomon's Temple etc.
I cannot comment on Solomon's Temple either (from the Quran) because (you guessed it) its not in the Quran. So you have to depend on your grandfather's tales about that. Which is indeed what you did. You said 'my grandpa prayed at Solomon's Temple'. Oh well.
To close here is another verse from the Quran you never heard of before. Just to poke a little fun at you I will not give you the verse reference. Since you are so clever, go look for it yourself. I doubt you will find it - not even in six months
".. WE have made for every Prophet an enemy, evil ones from among men and jinn. They inspire (wahiyy) in each other fanciful speech in order to deceive. If thy Lord had willed, they would not have done so; leave them alone with that which they fabricate.."
This is a command from Allah. So I shall leave you alone with your confused speech.
SAA
Imagine that qualified Ulamaks would respond the way you did on a purely valid theological question!
Imagine that Prophet Mohamed SAW would ever respond in the same manner that you did and the man was illiterate when compared to your such superior level of education!
No, don’t even try to compare yourself to the illiterate Arab in the desert who lived 1400 years ago! You absolute pale in comparison.
May I suggest that you change your name to something that is consistent with your ancestral origin instead of trying to be a wannabe Arab! Syed indeed!
Thats it? Thats all from Solomon's Temple. okey dokey. 'illiterate arab from the dessert' seems to be quite apt. You know exactly where you come from. Fortunately I am not as unfortunate.
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