Badlisyah Abdul Ghani, CIMB Islamic Bank Bhd Executive Director & Chief Executive Officer
KUALA LUMPUR: The Islamic financial market globally has been invaded by syariah scholar wannabes and they are destroying it from the inside out.
While this is a strong statement, it is one which I have made many times in open conferences and many would agree with me. However, like so many other issues in Islamic finance, most prefer to keep such opinions to themselves.
Many real and qualified syariah scholars have lamented about this in private and some in public but most times, like the Malay proverb, “Ibarat mencurah air ke daun keladi”, the lamentation goes unheeded.
These syariah scholar wannabes have infiltrated Islamic banks at the highest level of decision-making bodies – the board of directors, the syariah committee and the senior management – dictating what cannot be done without due consideration to stakeholders value, which at times resulted in the overnight dismantlement of businesses that took years to build.
They have infiltrated financial regulators and syariah governing bodies and exerted unnerving and disastrous influence on industry regulatory frameworks and policies in many jurisdictions, causing Islamic finance to fail its function as a public good to facilitate optimum financial inclusion for the general populace or the Ummah, particularly Muslims. As a result, the industry becomes a non-starter in many jurisdictions until today.
They have infiltrated many institutions of higher learning and distorted the teaching of syariah and its application in commerce or Muamalat, especially in Islamic finance, by imposing their personal opinion and biasness in their teachings.
This weakens the very foundation of the industry from the inside out as they train the industry’s workforce.
Those that provide distorted shariah application in Islamic finance have also written many books and presented many papers, putting themselves as the industry’s authority although most of them have never done a single Islamic banking and finance business themselves. They have a tendency to make prohibition on what has never been expressly prohibited in the Quran and Hadith, such as debt.
There have been instances where they have changed the meaning of Quranic verses and Hadith to suit their arguments and define established shariah principles differently, such as defining “Bai” or “Bay” as risk sharing instead of its true meaning, sale.
Syariah is simple
Considering that most of them are excellent orators and have a stronger command of English than most qualified syariah scholars, many people are easily persuaded and influenced by what they say. I believe that even if we call ourselves an Islamic economist, Islamic accountant, Islamic banker, Islamic journalist or whatever with an Islamic prefix, we are still just an economist, accountant, banker, journalist and so on. We are not syariah experts.
We have to accept that we cannot be a syariah expert by simply learning about syariah as a single subject or module in our higher education programmes. Being a syariah expert or a scholar certainly requires a different kind of training.
I have never referred to myself as a syariah expert nor have I ever allowed people to think that I am one. I have my opinions. My opinions may be legitimate under syariah and I can appear to come out very strong on it but I have never and would never impose them on others as an authority of syariah.
Of course to be fair, most people in the industry are just like me, someone who knows syariah from self-learning and on-the-job training and rely on real qualified shariah scholars to guide us on syariah matters in the industry.
However, there are some that truly takes the cake and present themselves as a syariah scholar to the extent of installing themselves as members of the syariah scholars’ fraternity although they have no qualification to be one.
The reality of Islamic finance is that syariah is simple but it is the people, particularly the syariah scholar wannabes, that make it difficult. - End
My comments : Wow Badlishah ! What a choice of words. Let me list some of the things that Badlishah has said about these so called Islamic banking 'experts':
My comments : Wow Badlishah ! What a choice of words. Let me list some of the things that Badlishah has said about these so called Islamic banking 'experts':
- they are destroying it from the inside out.
- without due consideration to stakeholders value
- resulted in overnight dismantlement of businesses
- unnerving and disastrous influence on industry
- causing Islamic finance to fail its function
- prohibition on what has never been expressly prohibited in the Quran
- industry becomes a non-starter in many jurisdictions
- distorted the teaching of syariah
- biasness in their teachings
- weakens the very foundation of the industry
- distorted shariah application in Islamic finance
- they have changed the meaning of Quranic verses
- truly takes the cake and present themselves as a syariah scholar
- syariah scholar wannabes, (who) make it difficult
Just like the ostat and the jihadists you too are fighting because the whole thing is just made up - imaginary. You are trying to slay each others imaginary pet unicorns. Get a real life bro - these things simply dont exist.
Err when you speak of those who are fluent in English, by any chance are you referring to INCEIF (that Islamic finance education centre or something). I hear they have a Mat Salleh as the CEO now.
When you say that they have a tendency to make a "prohibition on what has never been expressly prohibited in the Quran" it means they have elevated themselves to the status of little gods. The Quran speaks about such people :
When you say that they have a tendency to make a "prohibition on what has never been expressly prohibited in the Quran" it means they have elevated themselves to the status of little gods. The Quran speaks about such people :
Surah 16:116 "You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating: "This is HALAL, and this is HARAM" to fabricate lies and attribute them to Allah. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to Allah will never succeed".
Which is why Badlishah is complaining now that Islamic banking is not succeeding. I repeat what he said : "As a result, the industry becomes a non-starter in many jurisdictions until today." Ini bukan saya cakap. Dia yang cakap. Jangan marah saya ok.
Badlishah also says that these syariah scholars "have changed the meaning of Quranic verses". Well the Quran speaks about these people too :
Badlishah also says that these syariah scholars "have changed the meaning of Quranic verses". Well the Quran speaks about these people too :
Surah 2:79 "Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what Allah has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains."
They twist their tongues and fabricate things with their hands and say 'this is also from Allah, this is from the Rasul, this is Islamic' etc. They do nothing but tell lies. That is why they are so screwed up.
I beg to differ about syariah experts. There are no such persons. I have yet to come across any shariah expert. Even from the past.
Anyway what does Badlishah's long complaint really mean? It means that there is no certainty about Islamic banking. That is what it means.
Its his view versus the wannabe scholars' views. The wannabes are saying, 'ini tak boleh, itu tak boleh, ini haram, itu haram' etc. What Badlishah is saying is "semua boleh pakai, semua boleh terima". How do you run a business like Islamic banking with so much uncertainty?
Bank Islam ala Badlishah will say, 'our housing loan can be prepaid even without penalty'. Bank Islam ala Syed Mokhtar may say, 'we dont call it housing loan, it is a buy and sell'.
Its his view versus the wannabe scholars' views. The wannabes are saying, 'ini tak boleh, itu tak boleh, ini haram, itu haram' etc. What Badlishah is saying is "semua boleh pakai, semua boleh terima". How do you run a business like Islamic banking with so much uncertainty?
Bank Islam ala Badlishah will say, 'our housing loan can be prepaid even without penalty'. Bank Islam ala Syed Mokhtar may say, 'we dont call it housing loan, it is a buy and sell'.
How is the public going to make a decision - which Islamic Bank is more halal? Badlishah punya ke, Syed Mokhtar punya ke, Syed Akbar punya ke? How are you even going to open for business every morning?
In business or in doing anything at all, certainty is crucial. We must be sure and certain about what we are doing. Our customers and clients (the marketplace) demand it of us.
We cannot tell the market, 'we are Islamic banking. Like this also can, like that also can, this one is halal here, not halal there, that one is haram there, not haram here". That will cause uncertainty and chaos. You cannot run any business based on uncertainty.
The Quran says "The earth is full of signs for those who are certain" Surah 51:20.
You must be certain about what you say and do. If you are uncertain, it means you are jahil bro. As simple as that. After 1,400 years of Islam, still fighting about what is halal and haram in banking. The non-Muslim ummah in the rest of the world (yes they are also ummah) has reached the planet Mars and you are still fighting about what is right and wrong in Islamic banking.
I dont know how long it is going to take the Islamic bankers to realise that bank interest by itself is not part of riba. Riba refers to profiteering, excessive profits many times over the cost. Buying something for RM1.00 then selling it for RM10.00 is definitely excess profiteering.
But it is up to the market to weed out excessive profiteering by creating healthy competition. Free markets and healthy competition will weed out riba profiteering. This is why there is no punishment for "riba" in the Quran. It is not something that you can easily isolate or quantify.
Islamic banking also suffers that perpetual problem - how do you price your Islamic banking products. The conventional banks charge 8% per annum interest on a housing loan. How will the Islamic bank derive its "profit rate" to be levied on the same house buyer? At the end of the day, the Islamic bank also charges 8% profit rate per annum.
A spade is a spade bro, no matter what you label it.
In business or in doing anything at all, certainty is crucial. We must be sure and certain about what we are doing. Our customers and clients (the marketplace) demand it of us.
We cannot tell the market, 'we are Islamic banking. Like this also can, like that also can, this one is halal here, not halal there, that one is haram there, not haram here". That will cause uncertainty and chaos. You cannot run any business based on uncertainty.
The Quran says "The earth is full of signs for those who are certain" Surah 51:20.
You must be certain about what you say and do. If you are uncertain, it means you are jahil bro. As simple as that. After 1,400 years of Islam, still fighting about what is halal and haram in banking. The non-Muslim ummah in the rest of the world (yes they are also ummah) has reached the planet Mars and you are still fighting about what is right and wrong in Islamic banking.
I dont know how long it is going to take the Islamic bankers to realise that bank interest by itself is not part of riba. Riba refers to profiteering, excessive profits many times over the cost. Buying something for RM1.00 then selling it for RM10.00 is definitely excess profiteering.
But it is up to the market to weed out excessive profiteering by creating healthy competition. Free markets and healthy competition will weed out riba profiteering. This is why there is no punishment for "riba" in the Quran. It is not something that you can easily isolate or quantify.
Islamic banking also suffers that perpetual problem - how do you price your Islamic banking products. The conventional banks charge 8% per annum interest on a housing loan. How will the Islamic bank derive its "profit rate" to be levied on the same house buyer? At the end of the day, the Islamic bank also charges 8% profit rate per annum.
A spade is a spade bro, no matter what you label it.

28 comments:
Thanks. I am a syariah expert. sue me.
BTW, Iphone is riba? Excessive profiteering.
some argue'...protected by God' but ..sukuks do default, loans do default...
btw, syariah experts' opinions in middle east(say bahrain) differ from local experts' opinions...no standardization..How lah??
6995 says
Hi SAA, its been a while since i comment.
When you mentioned the islamic banking perpetual problem..thats exactly described the way how moslem handled religious matters...perpetually talking about it, perpetually angling it from the issue side, perpetually 'hentam' others pet unicorn..i for one just like the rest of the people who borrows from the bank just want the bank to do their job...let us borrow some money to buy our home and charge us reasonable rate...the moment you change us lousy rate, no repeat business for you, no perpetual business for you ...you can call yourself islamic bank or very islamic bank or tersangat islamic bank compared to other wannabe's bank, we cant stop you...go ahead since it is so typical of Moslem today..perpetual eh
malaysia launched first exchange for bonds and sukuks.
in my study, interest rates vary inversely to bond prices.
since, there no interest in sukuk, it vary with what-???'profit rate'
those dunggus in islamic banking is full of shit... just change the name of interest to profit sharing doesnt eliminate the element of interest or riba... Islamic concept is to ease the burden of society and not to ANIAYA masyarakat but THIS DUNGUS aka ISLAMIC BANK (especially Bank Islam, Bank Rakyat and BSN) is no different from the conventional banks.. in fact some international bank seem to more "baik hati" daripada so called Islamic Bank which "hati kering".. Some conventional bank willing to reduce their riba up to 70% to settle a long standing debt but this islamic Bank will not do that..instead they will say that we will burn in hell if we doesnt settle the debt.. every moslem know that.. but you suppose to help this kind of people as per required by ISLAM not to ANIAYA..
and one collection agent from one of this ISLAMIC BANK tend to cheat the client by saying that Bank Negara have give instruction to banks to inform the employer of the client.. such a crap..
Syed,
Apa yg mamat ni dok merapu. Benda ni mudah sangat. Saya amat bersetuju yg Islamic banking and finance ni semua benda ciptaan maknusia nak kasi tunjuk pada donia dan kaffir yg Islam ni syumul ke hulu syumul ke hilir..
Dari bab cara2 menyucikan diri selepas berjimak hinggalah ke Islamic banking.. dari cara2 mencukur bulu ari2 hinggalah ke rawatan sakit jantong ala Islam.. dari cara2 melupus kan cebisan quran di laut sedalam 250m hinggalah cara2 semayang di orbit fuhhhh.. tak ke kagum kita dengar.. hebat tersangat bunyi nya..Islam ni semua nya ada.. tak nak ngalah.. tapi umat Islam tetap jadi umat paling haprak dalam donia ni..
Berbalik pada islamic banking ni soklan saya satu saja. Sepanjang saya berbual dgn tok sarbani yg perasan dia ni syariah expert di bank Syed Mokhtar ke bank Nizam Razak semua pon tak bole jawap.
Soklan dia kalau la islamic banking ni betul2 wujud, kenapa zaman Nabi dulu tak ada pon islamic banking ni... cuba bawak satu hadis atau hikayat mana2 yg ada cerita Nabi atau sahabat buat loan cara Islam??? Ada ka tak?? Ok lah kita lupakan advanced finance macam sukuk. Kita focus yg simple saja yakni simple loan.
Ada tak dalam hadis yg Nabi pernah beri atau pinjam kan duit guna konsep islamic banking macam skrg. Ada tak mana2 shahabat yg pinjam duit buat renovation rumah pakai konsep jual dan beli balik ikut harga cekik darah??? Ada tak??
Mana2 tokoh yg boleh claim Islamic finance expert sila la jawap..
Every bank in the country seems to have an 'islamic banking'.
Really islamic? Or just in name only. Can you expect OCBC to hire syariah experts to handle their islamic banking?
SYed,
I got my house using kaffir banking from a kaffir bank called HSBC Amanah.
My sister got her house using "islamic halalal toyiban confirm masuk sorga type" from an Islamic bank called Bank Islam.
We both bought the same house. In fact in the same row and at the same price.
I have to pay RM1220 per month. You know how much she got to fork out - RM1670 per month..
I tell her its ok if I will be fried or "rebus" in neraka just because I have used my grey matter a bit more than her... Allah knows best.
Long time ago, an UMNO Finance Company wanted to open a branch in a once PASled Trengganu.The Chairman of Fin Co sought opinion from an Ex BBMB guy who led the first Islamic bank in Malaysia. After reading the report, his remark was just ... "Who are we going to fool? I am not going to fool God" A no go for Islamic Finance company with him.
Islamic this, Islamic that, Islamic here, Islamic there.. Idiots!
Till today the scholars and the practitioners still cannot agree on a definition of 'riba'. Late last year, in KL, was an international conference on 'riba'. What a waste of time! Let them resolve all these. In the mean time, I take loan from banks that offer the lowest interest rates with good customer service (no hurt to me) and DEPOSIT my money in institutions that offer the highest interest rates (no hurt to the institutions). To me that is good sense and good sense is Islamic. So, let them argue and debate about 'riba' till the cows come home and then they can stay with the cows.
If Islamic brand is so "terhebat", name 5 global Islamic brand yang terdapat dalam pasaran dan yang laku. Moslem tu ramai, apahal tak ada jenama Islam yang berekselent?
Anon 5:24 adalah bro. Apa lah you itu pun tak tahu ke? Here are five jenama ekselent terhebat global Islamic brand :
1. Jus Tok Guru
2. Spenda Tok Guru
3. Tudung Bawal Bini Tok Guru
4. Kismis Ajaib Tok Guru
5. Ubat Kuat Lelaki Tok Guru
anon 6:21
1)komentor terhebat tok guru....wakakkaa
they say riba is haram,and riba means usury..check the meaning of usury, is it just interest per se??..google plse
during prophet 's time,when ppl lend money, did ppl use 'profit rate'?
in bahrain, syariah scholars claim they are right.
Here, scholars also claim they are right.
Over in middle East, their products r sharia-compliant.
Over here, our products r also sharia -compliant.
Did God give us two set of parameter of compliance?
who's kidding who!!!..and when r we going to wake up???
Islam IS simple. Business is an exchange of "GIVES" AND "TAKES" that is mutually agreed and in case of undertaking risks both parties will share in prosperity and adversity. Items exchanged must be physical and readily available. The concept of taking must adhere to the principle of charity by the seller so as to be considerate to the buyer. In any exchange, transaction must be dealt in fairness not to burden both seller and buyer. But the modern world has designed the economics of living into an art that is so enticing and so wanting. Is there any living soul that can live outside the money web of deceit? Is there a bank in this world that will share the risks in adversity? The banks may call themselves syariah compliant but the truth is no bank wants to lose money. The real fact is all bankers are no better than any chetties or ah longs.What about buying a house that is not even built or paying for insurance for an uncertain eventualities that will probably never occur? We will continue to be overwhelmed by these bloodsuckers trickeries from every aspects of our lives and we will never have the power to overcome them.So the economics men who understands but ignore their divine books will continue to be the masters of the world.
Born loser
Beli rm1 dari pemborong chowkit road dan jual rm10 kat chinatown memangla eksesif untungteering. Sebab sewa gerai kat situ maybe rm1500 sebulan.
Tapi beli rm1 tapi jual rm10 kat pavilion tak boleh kira eksesif la juga, sebab penjual kena sewa kiosk rm15000 sebulan, pembeli dapat aircondition semasa membeli dan boleh aman jalan di situ berbanding chinakiasutown.
Jadi contoh excessive profiteering di atas tu agak general dan boleh disalahfaham juga.
Macam minum kopi kat gerai atau starbucks le.
Its all about branding, demand & supply. To those dungus who r so concerned about form rather than substance then islamic banking will still sell even if it being priced at a premium over conventional banking's products. To them their halal is wat matters most. Do we care? Its all up to them. It is their money, their choice. I'd rather go for pricing & quality services. I dont gv a damn on its branding even if it's called Kwong Yik or wateva. I agree wt Syed tat excessive profiteering is riba but when u use otr ppl's money add a bit of profit for him & after taking into account inflation-wouldnt it fair for him to earn a sum for lending his or her money out? Fairness goes both ways-to the lender as well as the borrower.
Just because the term is in arabic does not mean it is islamic. It is simply arabic.
The purpose is a label of islamic.
Like salamfone, their phone plans are ummah plan, ilmiah plan, musafir plan. This just make people feel good when losing their money on something.
Anon 9:00 PM kita kena faham kira2 bisnes bro.
Kalau kedai chowkit dgn sewa RM1500 sebulan dan kedai Pavilion dgn sewanya RM15,000 sebulan maka kos barang dia bukan lagi RM1.00. Kita mesti campur balik kos sewa dan kira balik kos barang seringgit tadi.
Katakanlah di Chowkit dan Pavilion, kedua kedai itu jual 3000 cawan kopi sebulan, maksudnya di Pavillion kos satu cawan kopi sudah naik RM15,000 / 3000 = RM5.0 utk satu cawan.
Di Chowkit pula, RM1500 / 3000 = 50 sen sahaja.
Jadi kalau di Pavilion harga jualan kopi = RM10 satu cawan, untung dia RM10 - RM6 = RM4.00 sahaja.
Di Chowkit pula kalau dia jual dgn harga RM10, untung dia RM10 - RM1.50 = RM8.50.
Tapi sudah tentu kalau dia jual kopi di Chowkit dgn harga RM10, dia tak akan kekal lama. Tutup kedai. Siapa nak bayar RM10 utk secawan kopi di Chow Kit?
Riba itu adalah keuntungan yang berlebihan. Apakah caranya utk kita memerangi riba? Kita galakkan persaingan (competition) dan pasaran terbuka (open market).
Kedai jual kopi RM10 di Chow Kit tak boleh survive. Sebab kedai mamak jual kopi tarik kaw kaw RM1.20 saja (kicik), RM1.50 (besar).
SAA
it' only human,..ego -lah!!.. every scholar want to be top 'syariah expert wannabes', each bank employ its syariah experts on banking, they want to make their name and top money in islamic banking too.
some islamic products here ,not recognised in the middle east bcos of different interpretation
Syed,
Yes indeed.
Just to share this...
The Great deception Islamic Banking ! Muslims MUST SEE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDm1rGpktrE
Islamic banking practices a scam - http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2012/12/27/islamic-banking-practices-a-scam/
Perbankan Islam adalah Haram - http://tuanbri.com/blog/2011/02/perbankan-islam-adalah-haram/
Islam Dan Sistem Kewangan Antarabangsa - Ceramah Penuh - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfdbzi8RLcc
You be the judge.
Cheers.
Born Loser,
I think you look upon yourself as a Born Loser because of a few misunderstandings you have about how the world works. You say:
1. The concept of taking must adhere to the principle of charity by the seller so as to be considerate to the buyer.
Bro, please wake up. This does not happen on planet Mars or even in "heaven". There is no such thing. Charity is charity and business is business. Do not mix the two together. If you insist on charity in business you will mess things up. In the same way keep business out of your charity as well. That will screw up charity work as well.
When the seller sells a product he expects to be paid. Dont cheat the seller of what is due to him. So make sure your cheque which you gave him does not bounce. Mak sure that if the seller gives you three months credit, you pay him at the end of three months. Jangan pula lari tak bayar hutang. Atau hutang tiga bulan jadi 12 bulan. Be fair to the seller. Or if ou engage in barter trade, you take the sellers perfect goods but you give him inferior goods. Ini semua tak boleh. In business we must be honest to the maximum of our ability.
Then you also say:
2. Is there a bank in this world that will share the risks in adversity?
Bro, the bank is a place where school children, grandmothers, housewives, workers, pensioners, your neighbours go and save their money in savings account, investment account, fixed deposit account etc. Also where corporations and companies put their money. The bank has a huge amanah or trust to safely and carefully handle all these peoples' money (including the housewives and grandmothers money).
When the bank lends money to you to buy a house, a car or start a factory they have to minimise the risk. Why? Because they have to safeguard your grandmother and your neighbours savings.
The job of the bank is to take calculated risks. The bank does not take the same risk as the borrower of the loan (the businessman or entrepreneur). The entrepreneur may make 25% or 30% profit. He pays the bank 7% or 8%.
So when the entrepreneur is doing well, he enjoys the lion's share of the profit. He takes more risk. He gives the bank a little bit. The bank takes less risk.
But when the entrepreneur goes bust, how can you ask the bank to suffer the full loss with the entrepreneur? Which is why the bank will sell any cagaran (security) or sue the entrepreneur to get back its money.
The bank is not an entrepreneur. The bank merely rents out (sewa) money. The bank does not share the full amount of profit enjoyed by the entrepreneur.
If you want the bank to take the same risk as the businessman, then ask the businessman to pay the bank the full amount of his profits. Say 25% or 30%. Then if the businessman goes bankrupt, the bank also suffers to the same extent.
This is nothing new in conventional banking. This is called venture capitalism or investment banking. The Wall Street boys have long ago figured this out.
However venture capitalists and investment banks are NOT (or should NOT) be allowed to take savings from your grandma, the housewife, the pensioners etc. The risks are too great.
Somehow the Islamic bankers do not seem to understand this basic primary school teachings about banking
SAA
HSBC Amanah is an islamic bank and so is Bank Islam.
If you bought your house from HSBC Amanah and she bought her's from Bank Islam than both of the transaction should be Shariah compliant, just that she had a bad deal compared to you.
Don't blame Islamic Banking just because a bad deal you have with a bank. You could have a bad deal with conventional or islamic bank.
Tuan Syed,
Cerita pasal bank ni saya teringat ostad ferrari janggut (Azhar Idrus).
Dia ckp siapa makan gaji di bank kaffir (bukan bank yg ada chop Islam hallalan toyyiban toliban), maka bila dia mati besok dia akan jadi kayu api di neraka....
Dia tambah lagi dgn jenaka bodohnya macam biasa. Dia kata blajar tinggi2, buat master kat US, kerja besar2, gaji besar2 last2 jadi kayu api jer pung...
genneva 's Gold investment scheme, also claimed to be sharia -compliant.
What does it(..compliant) mean to customers who invested and cannot get back their money???
Wow!! Ramai betul Shariah Scholar "Wannabes" here..
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